In this episode of the SECurity Awareness Series of the SEPodcast, Brian Phillips joins Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall. Brian is responsible for information security at Macy’s. Listen as they discuss how to build an information security organization, hire the right people, and get buy-in from executives. March 15, 2021.


Ep. 142 – You Can Be Right and Still Be Wrong with Brian Phillips

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Show Notes

Ep. 142

In this episode of the SECurity Awareness Series of the SEPodcast, Brian Phillips joins Chris Hadnagy and Ryan MacDougall. Brian is responsible for information security at Macy’s. Listen as they discuss how to build an information security organization, hire the right people, and get buy-in from executives.  March 15, 2021.


00:09 – Intro 

Phishing As A Service® 

Vishing As A Service® 

01:54 – Introduction to Brian Phillips 

02:44 – Security in a retail environment and impacts from the pandemic 

07:25 – How to build an information security organization from the ground up 

10:14 – Changing an organization’s mindset for better security 

14:20 – The most desirable quality in a team member, and how to recognize it ian interview 

18:21 – How to nurture an outsider into a security professional 

22:48 – How to align corporate security initiatives with business goals 

Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It 

26:38 – The importance of buy-in from the C-level down, and how to get it. 

38:13 – Key takeaways that corporations should start doing now 

40:17 – Brian’s most respected colleagues 

Dave Kennedy 

Ed Skoudis 

John Strand 

Rob Fuller 

Carlos Perez 

42:14 – Brian’s book recommendations 

Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It 

Thinking, Fast and Slow 

Human Hacking: Win Friends, Influence People, and Leave Them Better Off for Having Met You 

How to Win Friends & Influence People 

Robin Dreeke’s Books:
Sizing People Up: A Veteran FBI Agent’s User Manual for Behavior Prediction 

It’s Not All About Me: The Top Ten Techniques for Building Quick Rapport with Anyone 

The Code of Trust: An American Counterintelligence Expert’s Five Rules to Lead and Succeed 

Joe Navarro’s Books: 

Be Exceptional: Master the Five Traits That Set Extraordinary People Apart 

The Dictionary of Body Language: A Field Guide to Human Behavior 

What Every Body Is Saying: An Ex-FBI Agent’s Guide to Speed-Reading People 



Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don’t 


44:03 – Conclusion 

Ryan on Twitter 

Brian on Twitter 

Chris on Twitter 

The Innocent Lives Foundation